tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post3565845701668222879..comments2023-11-05T06:59:04.593-05:00Comments on Pen and Sword: Two Words: Body ArmorJeff Huberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14146644937683409726noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-30157153589349504692007-06-12T23:42:00.000-04:002007-06-12T23:42:00.000-04:00I have a well-visited post on body armor issues (l...I have a well-visited post on body armor issues (linked by Matt at Blackfive), link just below:<BR/><BR/>http://www.captainsjournal.com/2007/05/28/body-armor-wars-the-way-forward/<BR/><BR/>Here is the bottom line, sorry to say. It doesn't really matter whether the Dragon Skin is better than the IBA/MTV. The IBA/MTV weighs 32 lbm, while the Dragon Skin weighs 48. I have a Marine son. You cannot ... CANNOT ... put 48 lbm of body armor weight on Soldiers and Marines and expext them to live in it, along with a hydration system, SAW or M-16A2/M4, ammunition, other gear such as radios, etc. They couldn't function.<BR/><BR/>I do, however, advocate additional INDEPENDENT testing and studies. Why? Proof of principal. I will post again on this soon.Herschel Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05772271971135812680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-57219088431677198382007-05-26T15:56:00.000-04:002007-05-26T15:56:00.000-04:00Great post as always, Jeff.I'm a bit late to comme...Great post as always, Jeff.<BR/><BR/>I'm a bit late to comment on this one (have been taking a sabbatical from the insanity and reading mostly stuff in my field - biology), but I had to add to this one a quote:<BR/><BR/>"David H. Brooks, the chief executive of a company that supplies body armor to the American military in Iraq, invited 150 of his daughter's friends to the Rainbow Room atop Rockefeller Center in Manhattan, where they were serenaded by 50 Cent, Don Henley, Stevie Nicks and other luminaries during a birthday party reported to have cost $10 million."<BR/><BR/>NY Times, Dec. 22, 2005 (behind paywall):<BR/>http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F00C11FA3F540C718EDDAB0994DD404482Kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878555258969493722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-43703237525637734862007-05-22T17:51:00.000-04:002007-05-22T17:51:00.000-04:00Anon, You might want to look at this article by Ro...Anon, <BR/><BR/>You might want to look at this article by Roger Charles of Soldiers for the Truth. <BR/><BR/>http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?command=viewone&id=56&database=DefenseWatch%202006.db<BR/><BR/>He says the USAF tests were conducted on a Level III version of Dragon Skin, not the Level IV stuff the combat troops seem to want.<BR/><BR/>Also take a look at this:<BR/><BR/>http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?command=viewone&id=142&database=FTE%20Archive.dbJeff Huberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14146644937683409726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-90698491721360424952007-05-22T17:24:00.000-04:002007-05-22T17:24:00.000-04:00Commander, Thanks so much for your blog. Keep 'em ...Commander, <BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for your blog. Keep 'em coming. <BR/><BR/>You need to look into the fact that Air Force OSI had purchased several Dragon Skin vests for their agents, and then rejected them when they didn't hold up to ballistic tests at Aberdeen. OSI is currently in the process of suing Pinnacle. They have now switched to Paraclete Armor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-50332859780259841492007-05-22T12:02:00.000-04:002007-05-22T12:02:00.000-04:00Thanks for the info, William. Best, JeffThanks for the info, William. <BR/><BR/>Best, <BR/><BR/>JeffJeff Huberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14146644937683409726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-65149796290337761632007-05-22T08:03:00.000-04:002007-05-22T08:03:00.000-04:00FYI, from:http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,...FYI, from:<BR/>http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,78927,00.html<BR/><BR/>"The basic Dragon Skin vest for torso protection costs about $2,000 and the entire getup, which includes a protective collar, optional lightweight SAPI plates, an optional weight bearing rig, backpack plates, and an armored, take-it-with-you anywhere protective blanket, can run an individual more than $5,000. The basic Interceptor body armor issued to American troops costs about $1,100"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-90825856649681938882007-05-21T20:27:00.000-04:002007-05-21T20:27:00.000-04:00Sam, The Osprey was a cash cow for a lot of people...Sam, <BR/><BR/>The Osprey was a cash cow for a lot of people. Even Cheney couldn't put it in its last throes.Jeff Huberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14146644937683409726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-81993497229665146702007-05-21T19:08:00.000-04:002007-05-21T19:08:00.000-04:00Great post, Jeff. Of course, this occurs within th...Great post, Jeff. Of course, this occurs within the larger swamp of what Eisenhower originally called the "military-congressional-industrial complex," and is another illustrative anecdote of the pernicious effects of this interplay.<BR/><BR/>Next act, the fate of the dysfunctional Ospreys we were recently told are being deployed to Iraq. One of my cousins, BTW, who has been retired for a number of years, worked on the V22 program for 23 years. A cash cow for his company.Sam Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18049389264459683859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-13125020905434121802007-05-21T11:40:00.000-04:002007-05-21T11:40:00.000-04:00It does get confusing. Here's the Dateline story ...It does get confusing. Here's the Dateline story from last night:<BR/><BR/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18771902/<BR/><BR/>JeffJeff Huberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14146644937683409726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-53931749795923166222007-05-21T11:30:00.000-04:002007-05-21T11:30:00.000-04:00Another website claims to provide some inside info...Another website claims to provide some inside info and discrepancies that might or might not be significant. Including that the Dragon Skin armor is extremely heavy, that the Point Blank armor was tested on a curved surface and the Dragon Skin was tested on a flat surface, and that the disks have a tendency to bunch up, all of which are potential concerns.<BR/><BR/>http://www.defensetech.org/<BR/><BR/>But they also don't say how much the armor actually weighs, how much protection is provided even with the bunched disks in comparison to the Point Blank armor, etc. And anyone on the web can claim to have inside info.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-42689496466370510182007-05-20T21:27:00.000-04:002007-05-20T21:27:00.000-04:00Cmdr. Huber:Excellent topic and coverage on ballis...Cmdr. Huber:<BR/>Excellent topic and coverage on ballistic vests. As it may seem that the Pentagon/Army/Marines are in disarray over this issue, please add a WH dimension with the nomination of Michael Baroody as chairman of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Read the last line of the attached link:<BR/><BR/>http://www.stopbaroody.com/<BR/><BR/>Finally, it was a sad sight to see police officers donating used body armor to the "cause."<BR/><BR/>Left CoastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-13132050287636345182007-05-20T19:02:00.000-04:002007-05-20T19:02:00.000-04:00wow. The man said that we shouldn't ascribe to ma...wow. <BR/><BR/>The man said that we shouldn't ascribe to malice that which could be adequately explained by incompetence... but this crew's incompetence is just malicious.. <BR/><BR/>Again - thanks for your efforts, Commander.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-16943480343129390522007-05-20T17:54:00.000-04:002007-05-20T17:54:00.000-04:00Anon, I haven't found a retail per item cost on th...Anon, <BR/><BR/>I haven't found a retail per item cost on the armor, but can darn near guarantee you we could buy a vest for everybody on active duty for less than the price of a single B-2 bomber. <BR/><BR/>JeffJeff Huberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14146644937683409726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12796551.post-12450682729212297642007-05-20T17:40:00.000-04:002007-05-20T17:40:00.000-04:00Hi Commander Huber,I continue to appreciate your a...Hi Commander Huber,<BR/><BR/>I continue to appreciate your always insightful commentary.<BR/><BR/>Curiosity: approximately what does it cost to buy a dragon skin suit appropriate for the kind of duty ground troops in Iraq face? I just want to get a ballpark understanding of the costs involved. <BR/><BR/>Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com